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TOPIC: Open Source

Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #1

Whether ReShade should be made open source or not is a topic that has been discussed multiple times throughout the history of the project, both internally and in this community. There are both advantages and disadvantages, which I'll try to list below to give you a rough overview before you decide in the poll above. Depending on the poll outcome I'll reevaluate if the entire project is made available under an open source license (haven't decided whether under a permissive or copyleft license yet). This includes the entire development history (Git) back to day one.

Pro
  • I have very little time to continue the project, so open sourcing it might help in speeding up development via contribution on GitHub.
  • ReShade implements some very interesting concepts that would surely be interesting for some people (depending on the licensing model).
Contra
  • All built-in anti-exploitation routines are rendered useless, since it's easy to remove them from the code and rebuild.
  • The base could be misused for creating cheat tools since it allows deep integration into game code with little effort.
  • Both of these could reflect bad on ReShade itself and might get the tool banned from online games entirely (which in the moment is just a gray zone)
  • I'm obviously afraid of code stealing, since A LOT of my time and passion went into this project. I haven't seen such issues with my other open source projects, so I'm confident it's not going to be a problem, but still worth mentioning.

The contra arguments could partially be solved by providing signed binaries for download. However, software certificates are ridiculously expensive so I cannot afford doing that.
If I missed any arguments, please point them out in a reply! Thank you.
Cheers, crosire =)
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The following user(s) said Thank You: JPulowski, Wicked Sick, brussell, dom

Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #2

I'm not sure the tool itself needs that amount of active development to warrant the risks. It's already set up so that anyone can make their own shaders for it if they know how.

The only thing I can think of that might make it more feasible is the adding of support for new graphic API's (d3d12 and vulkan at the moment).
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by FierySwordswoman.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #3

It's Crosire's baby, it's his call. I'm worried about the same things he is for OpenSourcing the project, but mainly that the mounting creditability it has amassed will be destroyed. Relegating ReShade to be added to all the anti-cheat software in existence (such as VAC), when the flock of scriptkiddies swoop in to modify only the basics to be able to utilize cheats.

Is there someone the torch could be passed to instead?
What is The Ashrealm?
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #4

Mobeeuz wrote:
It's Crosire's baby, it's his call.

Aye. I'm pretty sure Crosire doesn't like the idea of it. As they're the project's creator, I think that's pretty much enough argument in itself.
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by FierySwordswoman.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #5

I strongly disagree on turning ReShade open-source. However, I believe the best solution would be to increase the list of people actively developing it, people that you think are trustworthy.

Also, a potential really negative point that was not mentioned: malicious versions. While it won't affect the official branch, other people may start spreading "custom ReShade versions" which may contain harmful code bundled in.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #6

Well, I guess the project will not be open-source, what a shame! I'm going to investigate in creating my own reshade alternative, probably will be shitty :D

But thank you, Crosire for even considering the idea!!! <3
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by NoMansReshade.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #7

As for some one like me looking to making games work in 3D opening this up would be a god send to me and our community. Since we are basically surviving on the work of two companies TriDef and Nividia hardware locked software.

The main problem as you pointed out is "code stealing." This is real issue to me. This something that I don't think you can get around if you open up your software. I don't think you have to worry about the small coder stealing your work. I think you would have to worry about a software company stealing code.

But, at the same time OMG I hate cheaters................................................... There are so many Tools that allow cheating as it is. I don't think allowing one more tool would Hurt as much as we think.

To me human nature dictates that there will always be cheaters. This is a video on trying to understand why people cheat.

I say sacrificing our multiplayer experience for a excellent single player experience. Is a acceptable loss. How do you people feel about this?

In the end It's still your call Crosire. You should only do this if you feel it's right to do so.
My PayPal Me Link If you like to donate paypal.me/BlueSkyDefender

Also my steam page steamcommunity.com/id/BlueSkyDefender

Discord Server discord.gg/W2f7YhX
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #8

The only reason I brought up the idea of opening the source to Reshade is that I would love to see this project succeed as much as possible (Which I believe would happen with a contributer development model). I Personally, as a complete coding noob, would love to dissect the frameworks code line for line purely for educational purposes. I understand the risks of opening the frameworks source, but I honestly believe this project would benefit from an open-source contribution development model.

Take Unreal Engine 4 for example. Every single update is jam-packed full of features and fixes purely because there are over 200 contributers actively working on the project. Unreal Engine 4 is very successful, so take this argument with a grain of salt. You could even go the same route EpicGames did, and just have a "Coding Standard" and have trusted members monitor every contribution. Yes the source could be used for bad, but as @BlueSkyKnight said: "I don't think allowing one more tool would Hurt as much as we think."

But at the end of the day, Reshade is @Crosire's project, and he can do with it as he pleases, and we should all respect that decision!!!
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by NoMansReshade.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #9

Ppl who use cheat codes still do so even if this didn't exist. If the creator is getting tired, it'll be a no brainer to open source it so that other can continue to add to it when new backends get made and to fix games that currently can't work with it. Alot of emus and programs are open source and nobody does a dang thing with them lol.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #10

Definitively, if people want to exploit it they already can and do since there are utilities to remove the online check but I doubt ReShade would be used much when there's other utilities for this purpose specifically so I don't see any risks there.

Also potentially helps with development speed and finding bugs and other things to improve on if more people have access to the source code directly, possibly even D3D12 and Vulkan API support or other enhancements. :)
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #11

Sh1nRa358 wrote:
Ppl who use cheat codes still do so even if this didn't exist.
JBeckman wrote:
...I doubt ReShade would be used much when there's other utilities for this purpose specifically so I don't see any risks there.

It's not that we're worried it's going to cause some super huge spur of cheating by being the next Scripthook. It obviously won't.
The problem is that companies could start banning people who use ReShade if it's easy to cheat with it. As far as I've tried, you can currently use ReShade in any multiplayer game it can inject into without consequence.
That'd be a massive loss if the risks come to fruition.
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by FierySwordswoman.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #12

FierySwordswoman wrote:
The problem is that companies could start banning people who use ReShade if it's easy to cheat with it. As far as I've tried, you can currently use ReShade in any multiplayer game it can inject into without consequence.
That'd be a massive loss if the risks come to fruition.
This.

And to add my 5c:

To those not thinking it will have much effect on cheating -- Reshade can be used with its depth-buffer to make wall-hacks for pretty any game now and in the future. You won't know someone else is using it. In time, companies *will* detect and ban Reshade hooks, and gone will be the ability to customise any online game to any degree. Dunno about you, but there's not a single game I don't use Reshade with. I'd hate to one day be unable to use it in some of my favourite games.

And -- you can't get put the cat back in the bag. Once one cheating fork is made, it will spread like wildfire and we will never be able to get back to where we are now where Reshade is not considered a cheat. This is a one way door. You don't need a crystal ball to predict this will happen with 100% certainty -- as another posted said, there will always be cheaters -- and they will use any and all tools at their disposal to cheat.

I think, as was also raised above, a better solution might be to entrust code access to a few programmers able to assist Crosire in continuing development. In fact -- to some degree, you probably do need a business continuity plan anyway Crosire. If for whatever reason you can no longer work on Reshade, it will also be sad to see it die, and so at some point access given to one or more individuals should be considered in advance.

As for the signed binaries -- put up a donation page Crosire with that clear purpose. Pretty sure you'll make enough to afford licenses quick smart :)
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by Martigen.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #13

Martigen wrote:
FierySwordswoman wrote:
The problem is that companies could start banning people who use ReShade if it's easy to cheat with it. As far as I've tried, you can currently use ReShade in any multiplayer game it can inject into without consequence.
That'd be a massive loss if the risks come to fruition.
This.

And to add my 5c:

To those not thinking it will have much effect on cheating -- Reshade can be used with its depth-buffer to make wall-hacks for pretty any game now and in the future. You won't know someone else is using it. In time, companies *will* detect and ban Reshade hooks, and gone will be the ability to customise any online game to any degree. Dunno about you, but there's not a single game I don't use Reshade with. I'd hate to one day be unable to use it in some of my favourite games.

And -- you can't get put the cat back in the bag. Once one cheating fork is made, it will spread like wildfire and we will never be able to get back to where we are now where Reshade is not considered a cheat. This is a one way door. You don't need a crystal ball to predict this will happen with 100% certainty -- as another posted said, there will always be cheaters -- and they will use any and all tools at their disposal to cheat.

I think, as was also raised above, a better solution might be to entrust code access to a few programmers able to assist Crosire in continuing development. In fact -- to some degree, you probably do need a business continuity plan anyway Crosire. If for whatever reason you can no longer work on Reshade, it will also be sad to see it die, and so at some point access given to one or more individuals should be considered in advance.

As for the signed binaries -- put up a donation page Crosire with that clear purpose. Pretty sure you'll make enough to afford licenses quick smart :)


You use Reshade in all your online games?
My PayPal Me Link If you like to donate paypal.me/BlueSkyDefender

Also my steam page steamcommunity.com/id/BlueSkyDefender

Discord Server discord.gg/W2f7YhX
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #14

I use Reshade on every game I play, both online and offline. To have Reshade being banned for use would be big loss for me. Sure there are tons of cheats out there. But if someone abuses the Reshade code it effects all us that uses it for it legitimate use as a post-processing effect.

That's why I chose to vote no.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #15

I highly doubt ppl will give up their right to make the game look pretty in order to cheat. master race is greater than that xD
Saying no will set gamer progress backward and also slow down the 3dvision community even more. And if this was used for cheating, the coder would change the name of the process or the name of the program anyway. Anti-cheat things go by file name just like virus scanners. It can't block what they don't have on file to block.
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by Sh1nRa358.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #16

Hi crosire,

I want to thank you again with helping me use Reshade in my 3DVision OpenGL wrapper. Making the wrapper open source is not a problem. There are lots of others wrappers/hookers out there for OpenGL/DirectX that could be used for cheating and that are Open Source. 3DMigoto for example is fully on GitHub, an older version of my wrapper is also on GitHub and countless others. Yet, none of them have been used for cheating in any game, to my knowledge.

People who go to the extent to cheat in games using wrappers, most likely already wrote their own wrappers/programs for this purpose and there is no need to re-purpose Reshade.

I am all pro for the Open Source movement. However, if you have code that you don't want to share for different reasons;) How about making an "Open Source" version of the wrapper not containing these pieces of code;) This is what I ended up doing with my wrapper:)

The main advantage of being Open Sourced is you will definitely find people interested in the code. They can add new features to the wrapper or even enrich the current engine;)

Cheers!
Helifax
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by helifax.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #17

It would be nice to open source the project there is a lot of talent in 3D Vision community this could result in making the reshade work with DX12 and Vulcan
I will also donate for signed code.
Thanks,
zig11727
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by zig11727.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #18

LOL just thinking about this makes me hyped.



But unfortunately the people have spoken D:

EDIT:
Is there an official reshade discord?? If not, I think it would be cool to have one :D
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by NoMansReshade.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #19

BlueSkyKnight wrote:
You use Reshade in all your online games?
Yes, I do :) Though I mostly play NS2 -- my profile here: sfx.thelazy.net/games/preset/1754/
(note it's old, pre-Reshade UI etc, been playing with it that long)

Sh1nRa358 wrote:
I highly doubt ppl will give up their right to make the game look pretty in order to cheat. master race is greater than that xD
You seem to think cheaters have morals... they're cheaters, they have none. And they will certainly put personal gain over 'the master race'.

helifax wrote:
Hi crosire,
I want to thank you again with helping me use Reshade in my 3DVision OpenGL wrapper. Making the wrapper open source is not a problem. There are lots of others wrappers/hookers out there for OpenGL/DirectX that could be used for cheating and that are Open Source. 3DMigoto for example is fully on GitHub, an older version of my wrapper is also on GitHub and countless others. Yet, none of them have been used for cheating in any game, to my knowledge.
...
[just cutting short the quote for reference, but it all applies]
I must admit, despite my initial opposition, helifax's post changes my mind somewhat.

zig11727 wrote:
It would be nice to open source the project there is a lot of talent in 3D Vision community this could result in making the reshade work with DX12 and Vulcan
And this is also valid. In a year or two, all games will be DX12/Vulcan and unless Reshade gets support it will be lost by the wayside. That thought terrifies me :/
Last Edit: 1 year 6 months ago by Martigen.
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Open Source 1 year 6 months ago #20

Im all in for a Open Source world.
Tools for bypassing its protection has existed already, and i used them myself, ingames i knew i would do no harm (TrackMania for instance).

Code thiefs and cheaters are everywhere, there's no stopping them, however, i think its worth making ReShade open source in favor of progress, even with the risks, i know that there's people with lots of potential to help, and im pretty sure they will.
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