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TOPIC: Ease of use

Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #1

  • crosire
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So now with ReShade being close to leaving the beta it's time to think of ways to simplify the installation and use of ReShade, since this is still one of the top complaints I hear about ReShade.

Problem: I personally don't have such problems, which is mainly because I'm the developer of the tool and I thus know it by heart. But it looks completly different from an outsider point of view. Which is why I would like to collect some ideas here. Just throw in everything you want to say about the topic =)
Cheers, crosire =)
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #2

So, interface and usability, right? Personally I can live with Reshade as it is, but since you ask...

-Always functioning toggle key. Not certain if this has been addressed or if it was me being lucky with GTA V where it works, but yeah.

-Configurable screenshot key.

...and, it's probably asking too much, but

-In-game menus would be really great.

That's all I can think of. Cannot really imagine how installation could be any simpler - maybe an uninstall function would be handy?
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #3

  • SunBroDave
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I'd imagine that for those unaccustomed to using ReShade or older versions of SweetFX, a GUI configurator for the Framework would be much more approachable than messing with the config files in notepad
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #4

  • BillyAlt
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I'm pretty fine with ReShade as it is. I guess I can offer some critique, though.

1) Develop a GUI so that configurations can be handled outside of a text file. This may encourage people to try out ReShade at all.

2) Make it easier to add custom FX. Even just getting rid of the necessity to add a line to the ReShade file would make it much easier.

3) The largest leap: An in-game GUI that will allow you to add, remove, and adjust effects on the fly. Understandably this would be the most time consuming to implement.

4) This may also be tricky to implement: Import settings automatically when updating ReShade or framework version. Thus far I've had to reconfigure every time there has been a new ReShade/Framework update. Would be convenient if it were somehow possible to import old settings while still gaining access to new features.

Personally, I'm pretty happy with ReShade as it is. Only real complaint is that some framework suites don't have variables columned nicely, so I'm moving my cursor all over the place instead of just up and down. Nothing I can't fix myself, though.
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #5

  • brussell
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I'm an advocate of the KISS principle. So please don't add too much bloat, which could decrease the performance and compiling time. Also I've never used the installer, so it would be nice if the manual method is still an option in the future (thus the dll's won't be buried in an executable).

Apart from these (hopefully unfounded) concerns I'm very happy with ReShades current shape.

A configurable screenshot key would be nice indeed :)
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #6

  • crosire
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brussell wrote:
I'm an advocate of the KISS principle. So please don't add too much bloat, which could decrease the performance and compiling time. Also I've never used the installer, so it would be nice if the manual method is still an option in the future (thus the dll's won't be buried in an executable).
Don't worry, I very much favor the KISS principle too. Still going through the whole ReShade codebase every few weeks, removing everything not absolutly necessary and cleaning up code.


SpinelessJelly wrote:
Always functioning toggle key. Not certain if this has been addressed or if it was me being lucky with GTA V where it works, but yeah.
This should be working pretty well since 0.18 now. There still may be one or two games with issues, but oh well, you can't make everything perfect.


SpinelessJelly wrote:
Configurable screenshot key.
brussell wrote:
A configurable screenshot key would be nice indeed
Alright, not much of a problem to add that.


SpinelessJelly wrote:
In-game menus would be really great.
BillyAlt wrote:
3) The largest leap: An in-game GUI that will allow you to add, remove, and adjust effects on the fly. Understandably this would be the most time consuming to implement.
We get there when we get there =D.
The basis is there, rendering is no issue and keyboard and mouse input handling is implemented too, so it's actually not that much of a problem. Just need to figure out an useful layout.


SpinelessJelly wrote:
maybe an uninstall function would be handy?
Good idea.


SunBroDave wrote:
I'd imagine that for those unaccustomed to using ReShade or older versions of SweetFX, a GUI configurator for the Framework would be much more approachable than messing with the config files in notepad
BillyAlt wrote:
1) Develop a GUI so that configurations can be handled outside of a text file. This may encourage people to try out ReShade at all.
Need to talk with Lucifer about this again, since he started something like this a while ago.


BillyAlt wrote:
4) This may also be tricky to implement: Import settings automatically when updating ReShade or framework version. Thus far I've had to reconfigure every time there has been a new ReShade/Framework update. Would be convenient if it were somehow possible to import old settings while still gaining access to new features.
That's something I need to talk with Lucifer about, since it's specially targeted at the framework pack, rather core ReShade.
Cheers, crosire =)
Last Edit: 1 year 9 months ago by crosire.
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #7

  • Martigen
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I'd be keen to see more work on depth buffer for getting it working in more games.

But in terms of ease of use, and this might be more appropriate for the in-game GUI -- making it easy to make a UI mask for users, to set and load. Setting mainly since, with Luciferhawk's excellent work, it needs to be created in-game over a number of steps.
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #8

  • Cloudbill
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Being someone that is just an end-user with no in-depth understanding of HLSL or anything graphically related and only ever so slightly technically inclined I would say a GUI interface at least similar to the SweetFX Configurator. It's simple, you don't have to open a separate instance of an editor. You can have access to all your games settings in one place.
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #9

  • Kleio420
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Martigen wrote:
I'd be keen to see more work on depth buffer for getting it working in more games.

But in terms of ease of use, and this might be more appropriate for the in-game GUI -- making it easy to make a UI mask for users, to set and load. Setting mainly since, with Luciferhawk's excellent work, it needs to be created in-game over a number of steps.
read this wrong last night :silly: ......

But yea having a working UI bypass for games is really key atm imo above all other issues this should be number one whats the point of having shaders applied when its applied wrong ? That and finding a way to increase its accuracy for games not able to use depth buffer data.A overlay imo should be last on the list of things to do i also have trouble getting the current version to work with games i play last 3 versions in fact no word on why that is im assuming it has to do with the current game build of those games.

-Accurate detection for shaders that cant use depth do to being online
-Number 1 in my book a UI bypass no point using shaders if you destroy everything else on screen.
-Going back to the first point if the effect is over done it ruins everything else in 100% of cases a generic form of almost all shaders renders in accurate detection and causes artifacting to happen or bleeding issues this is in games i have tested(star trek online,the witcher 2, xenoverse has sever issues with ghosting, kotor 1 and 2 just to name a few ive got no issues posting screenshots of each example of where things could be worked better and i do understand the fact its a generic way to do things and these problems will occur. Bloom and light effects are usually over done in every game ive tried it on and destroys the brightness of the game to stupid levels tonemapping in a few has caused artifacting also making colors seem super off this is tested in games where i can turn post processing off and make sure their version of tonemapping and color correction is off and still occures in games my monitor is really good from my view from going from black to white and colors arnt oversaturated so its not a monitor issue ...

Im just gonna throw these out here cause ive yet to see anyone since sweetfx/ fxaa injector came out to mention these issues to even talk about possible work arounds. Again i understand this isn't enb level graphic modding but that doesnt mean the issues dont exist
Last Edit: 1 year 9 months ago by Kleio420.
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #10

In my opinion, simplifying something, is just going to add issues, and keep in mind PEOPLE will still complain about accessibility.

As it is, it's a-ok -- I can understand a preset preview which is something people will use but any other change I am not exactly interested with.

Thus this is an opinion, take it or leave it :whistle:
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #11

  • Gryzemuis
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When I look at the zip-file for the 0.18.3 beta, I see that the software consists of 1 folder and 7 files. These files need to be put in the same folder where the game executable is, right ?

I find that slightly confusing. Or maybe "not tidy" would be a better word.
I rather see all files live inside one sub-folder in the games-folder.
Now, if I am not mistaken, that is not possible because the dll-file needs to be in the same folder as the game executable.
So therefor I'd like to see ReShade consist of just: 1 folder and 1 dll. Everything else lives inside that folder.

This would make it easy to locate all files. And easy to uninstall or upgrade the reshade software. Less chance to miss a file. I'm sure expert users don't care. But for someone new to ReShade, a tidy enviroment makes it easier to understand quickly what is going on.
====

My second suggestion.
I came here to see what's necessary to use SweetFX/ReShade with GTA V. A few days ago I started using another utility for GTA V. It's called x360ce. github.com/x360ce/x360ce It does something different than ReShade/SweetFX. But it uses the same method, via dll injection. It puts a file called xinput1_3.dll in the game folder.

The way x360ce installs itself was quite nice. When you download the tool, you get just 1 executable file. Called x360ce_x64.exe. (There is also a 32-bit version). You put that exe in the game folder. Then you click it. When x360ce_x64.dll starts, it first checks for a dll file and a settings file. If those do not exist, the user gets 2 pop-ups, telling the user that there are no dll and no configuration file. It asks the user if x360ce should create those 2 files. If you click yes, the files xinput1_3.dll and x360ce.ini are created. I guess the exe file has a zip-part inside it, with those 2 files. Very easy. No chance to make mistakes or forget files.

After those 2 files are extracted and installed, the x360ce_x64.exe file still has a purpose. It is the GUI to configure the settings that the dll uses. So you click the exe file once, it installs the dll and ini file. You then configure the tools as you prefer the settings. Quit the tool. Start the game. You only need to click the exe if you want to change the settings.

I understand that ReShade&SweetFX have more files to deal with. But maybe you could make the installation a little similar. One file, that installs the rest. Would be sweet. Maybe something for the future.
Last Edit: 1 year 9 months ago by Gryzemuis.
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #12

@Gryzemuis

Why do you need x360ce, whats the purpose in your case. Reason I ask cause their may be a [better] alternative
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #13

  • crosire
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Gryzemuis wrote:
When I look at the zip-file for the 0.18.3 beta, I see that the software consists of 1 folder and 7 files. These files need to be put in the same folder where the game executable is, right ?
You don't really have to put files anywhere, just run the setup tool and it will do all that for you (1 folder and 2 files: the right DLL and FX file). =)

Gryzemuis wrote:
The way x360ce installs itself was quite nice. When you download the tool, you get just 1 executable file. Called x360ce_x64.exe. (There is also a 32-bit version). You put that exe in the game folder. Then you click it. When x360ce_x64.dll starts, it first checks for a dll file and a settings file. If those do not exist, the user gets 2 pop-ups, telling the user that there are no dll and no configuration file. It asks the user if x360ce should create those 2 files.
brussell wrote:
Also I've never used the installer, so it would be nice if the manual method is still an option in the future (thus the dll's won't be buried in an executable).
=/
Cheers, crosire =)
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #14

Crosire wrote:
brussell wrote:
Also I've never used the installer, so it would be nice if the manual method is still an option in the future (thus the dll's won't be buried in an executable).
=/

Making a easy to follow guide and or wiki with the help of current members/regulars WILL BE A MUCH BETTER way to go about things, sure an installer sounds good but there is no flexibility for the user using reshade in terms of installation method and file handling/management or backing up reshade versions

I have seen things in the past go the 'make it super easy' route which ultimately killed their project because it drove away the core users

This is just how I see it, and its always possible to have an installer or accessible methods to install and have the manual way
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #15

  • Ganossa
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crosire wrote:
SpinelessJelly wrote:
maybe an uninstall function would be handy?
Good idea.

SunBroDave wrote:
I'd imagine that for those unaccustomed to using ReShade or older versions of SweetFX, a GUI configurator for the Framework would be much more approachable than messing with the config files in notepad
BillyAlt wrote:
1) Develop a GUI so that configurations can be handled outside of a text file. This may encourage people to try out ReShade at all.

Need to talk with Lucifer about this again, since he started something like this a while ago.

BillyAlt wrote:
4) This may also be tricky to implement: Import settings automatically when updating ReShade or framework version. Thus far I've had to reconfigure every time there has been a new ReShade/Framework update. Would be convenient if it were somehow possible to import old settings while still gaining access to new features.
That's something I need to talk with Lucifer about, since it's specially targeted at the framework pack, rather core ReShade.

Sorry for the late reply.
Basically everything mentioned here can be covered by the planned configurator. I can easily include an uninstaller that deletes all framework files and all that is left for you is to delete the configurator binary.
The base for the configurator is already existing and I had quiet some time to experiment with it. Depending on how flexible the first release should be, it might take longer or shorter until it becomes available. Further, it made only sense to implement a configurator after the framework became stable and its layout convincing.
It is possible to aim for a more tolerant way of implementing a preset import function which in return will allow you to import settings across multiple versions.
I am currently thinking about where to start, which then again influences the first release date of the configurator. Of course I would be able to set things up quiet fast if I base it on the existing GEMFX configurator but this one is a win32 app and therefore would be useless on MAC or Linux. With OGL support, the question (probably to you guys and Crosire) would be, how important are those platforms for ReShade (specifically the configurator)?

On top of that I want to finish one last big shader this weekend which might either succeed or fail but will ultimately move up the implementation of the configurator to the top of my to-do list.
Last Edit: 1 year 9 months ago by Ganossa.
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #16

  • Gryzemuis
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strelokgunslinger wrote:
Why do you need x360ce, whats the purpose in your case. Reason I ask cause their may be a [better] alternative
I play all my games with a joystick and trackball combination. Ever since 1999. My joystick is highly programmable (with its own programming language). It's CH Products Fighterstick. Even when games don't recognize joysticks, I can usually program my stick to do WASD and other keypresses. Heck, I've programmed it to do double-tapping for dodging in UT. (And later in the Witcher games too).

But GTA V will only recognize gamepads. Not joysticks. I had programmed my joystick to do WASD (as usual). But that means steering is digital (not analog). And that makes steering pretty hard. I use x360ce to map certain axis from my joystick to certain axis of a virtual gamepad. That gamepad is then offered to GTA V. Works like a charm. Movement on foot is now analog. So is steering, and even acceleration and braking in vehicles. Very smooth.

Without x360ce, GTAV would not accept any axis input from my joystick.
I was just giving it as an example, because I was impressed how easy to install and use it was. I am sure it took the developers (it's open source) some extra effort. But I think it pays off. I have little experience with ReShade (yet). But a little more with SweetFX. One of the downsides of SweetFX is that there are different versions, with different config-files (or config-file syntaxes), different files. If you use SweetFX once or twice a year for a game, it's gonna be different every time. It's not rocket surgery. But the average gamer might get confused a bit.
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #17

  • Gryzemuis
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crosire wrote:
You don't really have to put files anywhere, just run the setup tool and it will do all that for you (1 folder and 2 files: the right DLL and FX file). =)
I tried to install ReShade after I wrote my post. I didn't succeed. (Game crashing at startup). Tomorrow or later this week I'll see if I can get it to work. The first thing I did was copy all files to the game folder. I now know that was (probably) wrong. But that's how SweetFX used to work. When I ran the Setup tool, I got an error message. I suspect a lot of new users will run into this right away. I read the Readme.txt. It says "run the provided ReShade Setup tool". But it didn't say from where. So I put the files in the game folder, as usual.

I don't think you can run the Setup tool straight from the zip file. So you need to unzip the file first. But where ? You shouldn't unzip to the game folder. But if you unzip it to the Desktop, you might lose track of files. I think it would be better to pack the files in a folder, and then into a zip-file. This way a new user can just drag the folder from the zipfile to the desktop. Then open the new folder on the desktop, and click the Setup exe.

I'm just playing a dumb user here. I did figure it out eventually (after a few minutes). But ideally you want to remove all pitfalls new users can fall in.

Is it necessary that the fx file is in the game folder too ? Or could it be in a subfolder of the gamefolder ? If that's possible, then that's where I would put it. The less files in the game folder, the better. Yes, imho 1 folder + 1 file is better than 1 folder + 2 files.
Last Edit: 1 year 9 months ago by Gryzemuis.
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #18

Gryzemuis wrote:
crosire wrote:

Fair enough I guess my alternative is redundant due to the joystick you are using

0.18.3 works, make sure to rename reshade64.dll to dxgi.dll
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #19

  • padolamap
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It may not be a transparent window to make changes without having to minimize the game
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Ease of use 1 year 9 months ago #20

  • crosire
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Gryzemuis wrote:
I think it would be better to pack the files in a folder, and then into a zip-file. This way a new user can just drag the folder from the zipfile to the desktop. Then open the new folder on the desktop, and click the Setup exe.
Fair enough.

Gryzemuis wrote:
Is it necessary that the fx file is in the game folder too ? Or could it be in a subfolder of the gamefolder ? If that's possible, then that's where I would put it. The less files in the game folder, the better. Yes, imho 1 folder + 1 file is better than 1 folder + 2 files.
We played with putting the fx in different places, but it made it even more complicated for shader devs to keep track of the include order. However, you can rename the FX file the same name the DLL file and thus have them close to each other, which cleans up the folder structure a bit (I do that myself all the time):
ReShade
dxgi.dll
dxgi.fx
Cheers, crosire =)
Last Edit: 1 year 9 months ago by crosire.
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