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TOPIC: 2.0

2.0 3 years 9 months ago #101

I wrote the DepthHaze shader, what you're saying sounds a bit strange. Did you bind a key to it, e.g. VK_F8? Do you use it in a game with a depth buffer enabled? As it relies on the depth buffer, so it has no effect (or better: it blurs the whole screen) if there's no depth buffer available.
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #102

Updated to 2.0.1f3 which fixes the TuningPalette effect once more and adds some tweaks to the DepthHaze shader by Otis (namely a fog effect).
Cheers, crosire =)
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #103

  • Abby
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2.0.1f3 Released ?

Edit: Released thank you.
Last Edit: 3 years 9 months ago by Abby.
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #104

OtisInf wrote:
piltrafus wrote:
First of all congrats on the new release and thanks for all the hard work you guys have put on it. All the effort towards the improvement of this gift of a tool is greatly appreciated.
bopper2010 wrote:
... it seems like more emphasis was put on visual aesthetics and the looks of the tool itself rather than on ease of use...

I have to admit that this was my impression too. To the 14 year old in me It seems that it's at least the third iteration on this tool and every new version feels more like a step in a new direction rather than a step forward in functionality. However, I can see all the new improvements that go under the hood in order to build a better and more accessible framework. I'm also well aware that nothing is perfect right away. Things only get better when you keep hammering them into the desired shape.
Yep, same here: the new mediator is simply abit unfriendly to the user, like its predecessor, sorry. Things are crammed together which should be separate (shader list and pipeline, this is totally unclear. All I was thinking was 'why is this list sorted using the 'chaos' directive', only after reading piltrafus post I realized it's the pipeline we're looking at.) and things which are now separate should be together (values and selected shader).

Also, it's unclear why sometimes multiple shaders are selected when you select one and not with other shaders.

The help for a shader is displayed only when you hover over it, not for the selected shader

Which shader is actually active is done through bold text, but it's unclear what that means if the shaders around it are selected too through their backcolor.

If a shader value is a range, a textbox _with_ a slider might have been better. Even a spinner control would have been better. There's screen estate enough.

Heck, if you would have used something like: github.com/FransBouma/Algorithmia/tree/m...ures/PropertyEditing (it's from my algorithm lib, it's an example not a plug that you should use that) you could have used a simple property grid. Not that that is great UX, but alas...

The UI runs around in a circle or something, but I have no idea where to go if I want to access a tab: do I look left or right? Sometimes the globals are on the left, sometimes on the right.

I understand it's made this way to look flashy, but putting in numbers and fiddling with settings is precisely what LoB apps offer and they're made with the most boring controls one can imagine.

A tree, a treelist perhaps (like DevExpress' one), some tabs, a menu. Terribly boring but very efficient. Yes, I know the old one had tabs, but those were not tabs like one sees in normal software. With the amount of info one can edit in a shader, I doubt there have to be tabs anyway.

Why are all shaders in the pipeline btw? If they're not enabled, they don't need to be in the pipeline so the whole list of shaders in the form of a pipeline is a little odd.

If you want dependencies to be honored, and that might be a good thing, it's easy to do: define per shader which shaders it should be placed _after_ by default. Place those dependencies in a directed graph, run a topological sort over it and you have the right order. (see: github.com/FransBouma/Algorithmia/blob/m...s/GraphTests.cs#L267 same lib ;))
I'm well aware is easy to come in at the eleventh hour and offer a improvements to something that took months of work to get into its current shape. However that doesn't make a fresh view less useful. Respect to the devs and I hope this feedback is useful and in no ways is felt as a criticism.
True. It's a bit of a letdown that the new tool is not really a step forward with respect to UX.


---

--> I have to say I couldnt agree more onto this matter with OtisInf & others, I know it could sound disrespectful and ungrateful regarding the time Ganossa (ReShade Assistant tool developer) has spent in his free time on making this tool, but it isnt negative feedback, its honest feedback, I think thats important otherwise the software is heading towards a direction the developer has in mind with cutting out other perspectives (thus from the ReShade userbase in this case), both sides (developer & user) want to achieve the best possible solution, no?

I think its good when you make a new software design it has to be responsive & intuitive, the more the user doesnt need to learn how to use the software the better, but of course thats an ideal, yes the ReShade Assistant tool looks slick, but I have the feeling now (and for a longer time,.. previous version too) that the focus is (becoming more & more) based around the ReShade Assistant tool and not on ReShade itself. When I speak for myself the main focus in the ReShade Injector are in changing the variables as fast as possible, everyone wants to make the game as goodlooking as they can with ReShade quickly, no ?

For example (this is what happened with ReShade 2.0):
when Im in a game, and want to change the Reshade settings on the fly, I alt tab out from it and into the ReShade Assistant tool, circling around tabs, which feels strange, (I just want to enter a new variable) at the time Im in the right tab, entering the value is feeling quite unresponsive too, you have to hold the mouse on the variable box and at the same time with your other hand enter a new variable, it happened many times the mouse was hovering towards another input field when you dont lock it. Why not make an "ugly" but fast responsive & intuitive tool (?)

To be honest I dont care if a tool looks slick, if I can choose between 2 tools, I would always choose the "ugly" fast responsive & intuitive tool above others. Anyway I hope you ReShade-developers take all our feedback as positive, the shaders you developed are great, for sure without any doubt! but the Assistant could use a far more "basic" design, perhaps just like this:

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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #105

Myself using only HD resolution in my case 1360x768.
Would be nice to have option to change the font (or at least more have option to make it bold cause i barely see the text).
And also i preferred older UI much more then this.
Anyway keep up the good work guys B)
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #106

Hi.
I believe is a good moment to reintroduce a previous suggestion. While this discussion of "clicking vs mouse hover" is clearly related to the root of the issue I'll ask you to please look at it from a slightly different perspective. To me, either clicking or hovering to switch a tab is still an unnecessary extra step in the process of "select shader/ edit shader." I'll ask you please to consider the possibility of an unified tab containing the shader list(pipeline) and the shader values, removing the necessity of constant back and forth between the two of them. Removing a step is always good if you aim for simplicity.

The visual design and general idea of the UI is great. Perhaps some navigation ideas are too revolutionary for what the majority of users need the tool for.
Last Edit: 3 years 9 months ago by piltrafus.
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #107

I do not remember if it was your point before but I already said to when that came up before that this is something to consider. Since time is limited and it just got released, I said we will first see how everything works. Honestly, I could not use the (final) tool myself yet because I am constantly busy with changing things :P
Step by step and (please) from where we are right now and not starting at the finish :side:

EDIT: It was a quote from your original feedback that I responded too. That quick navigation + transparency + compressing the space was the reason for how it is separated now. It tackles the disjoint of pipeline and values with the quick navigation and the space issue with its compression in two not expanded tabs. (this might also explain to you why the click to nav was a bad idea cause it slows down navigation and therefore made people question the separation of tabs, hence the overal design) Anyway, as said above, that is something that is possible but do not make me promise things :P

EDIT#2: Maybe this will explain the idea behind the design better

People did not understand how certain features interacted and have been dependent in the old mediator or ReShade in general.
Therefore the first principle was TRANSPARENCY

TRANSPARENCY was achieved by adding all tabs as dependent neighbors to one view.

The issue you get with having everything in one view is space.
Therefore the second principle was COMPRESSION

COMPRESSION was achieved by not expanding the tabs but somewhat give a preview of their content

The issue you get with compressed tabs is that they seem disjoint and not work as if they are all on one view.
Therefore the third and last principle was QUICK NAVIGATION

QUICK NAVIGATION was achieved by replacing the traditional click to nav mechanic with a simple expand when mouse over mechanic.

This was the very first conceptual implementation I shared with crosire:

It was not at all about visuals but about the principles above. (though a lot changed until today)

Hope that somewhat illustrates the original idea behind the design and also makes clear that there was never usability disregarded or even a thought given to visuals :P
Last Edit: 3 years 9 months ago by Ganossa.
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #108

I think the Assistant is not that great. Its quite sluggish. I don't understand why it had to be so creative with tabs and transitions. I think it would be best with just simple interface with classic theme. It would make it look professional and probably snappier. Right now I find it borderline impossible to use due to all the lag and the way tabs change. Mediator was actually better, IMHO...
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #109

Does this version finally have automatic updates?
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #110

Ganossa. Thanks for the lengthy explanations. I believe most people see were your design choices come from by using the tool.
At this point Is more pragmatic to think about how can you give this tool the final push from "release version" into "it's way better than using notepad++".
I think the conversation is getting a bit negative.
The previous "mediator" had its problems, and many of them went away when you added the right mouse click to navigate from shader to settings and back. Skipping the cumbersome "developer tabs". It was simple, functional and intuitive. And followed conventions as in windows right click usually brings settings and options.
The new tool needs that sort of simplicity. To me it comes in two forms:
- clean shader pipeline list (only show desired shaders)
- immediate access to shader settings (either by two integrated tabs or bringing back the right click navigation or whatever). The gesture navigation is ok for an ocasional use but is flawed for constant repetition. Too error prone perhaps.

I'm pretty sure the tides would turn after a few key changes in functionality. I hope you find the motivation to keep going with this. I understand it has to be mighty annoying reading some of the posts.
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #111

I, on the other hand, I kinda like this new Assistant tool. It makes sense to me: You've got the profiles and, right next to them, the available presets. It doesn't really matter whether they are hosted on a different tab or not, it feels right next to them, it feels right. There are the shaders and then their values - not in a jungle of tabs but in one single, neat tab right next to each shader, always the same, always there. I like it. Actually it's only now that the "pipeline" tab feels organic to the design, in the Mediator it was kinda weird having to jump back to this huge list of effects only to click on a little box that could easily be hosted in each shader's page (yes, I know, the pipeline allowed to reorganize the effects' order, but how often do you do that).

What I would like to see:
- a description for each shader. It would be great (especially for newcomers) if hovering over each shader's name triggered a short description of them in the space below (Edit: ok, the descriptions are there, I just had to right-click)
- the possibility to render the entire thing opaque. Don't know if I'm missing something but right now you can choose whether tabs are transparent to the text underneath or to the desktop below, I'd prefer no transparency at all
- a vertical scrolling bar when the text exceeds the page height, like in the shaders' page.
- the "classical navigation" option, with clickable tabs (please Ganossa, please!)

And yes, sometimes it feels not responsive, a little "sluggish" as MonarchX put it. But overall I believe it's a great, great improvement over the previous design.

EDIT: Oops, I get the feeling this comment arrived too late. Oh well.
Last Edit: 3 years 9 months ago by SpinelessJelly.
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #112

I noticed that 2.01f3 package uses OLDER Genossa file from 3/5/2016 than the 2.01f2 package. Was that a mistake or is that how it was supposed to be? The file sizes are a tiny bit different if you right-click and go into Properties of each file and check out the exact size. However, the problematic TuningPalette shader looked identical in both cases. At the same time, previous 2.01f2 involved a new Genossa cfg with fixed TuningPalette and yet the TuningPalette section was identical to the one in 2.00, 2.01f1, and 2.01f3... What's the proper file to use?
Last Edit: 3 years 9 months ago by MonarchX.
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #113

Yikes!

Ok for the last week I struggled with trying to get the Reshade thing to work (Im not good with computers) - needless to say, I failed, as nothing I did worked. at the time I thought WHY dont they have some sort of GUI Interface to use..

Now I see this. so I was delighted to see a easy solution was done! (It was damm right scary previously)

However, sadly this does not work for me either.

My steps.

1)- Create the game location (In this case its Witcher 3) - set it to DX11
Save
2)-Edit the "global" so I can turn on/off the effect I have set it to VK_HOME or END (cant rem)
save
3)-Create a Profile "witcher" so its ready for selection of effects
save
4)-Launch game. - YAY I see the re-shade title thing at top of screen.
Al-tab back to the editor
Click on a few shaders to test....
save
Back to game.. Nothing.
Try turning on a fe more shaders/messing with effects
save
Back to game.. Nothing.

No matter what I do.. nothing works. the only thing I get is the reshade text on top right corner.

Please, tell me what am I doing wrong?

FYI: Windows 10 pro / Geforce GTX980 ti

EDIT: I know whats wrong.. The assistant is not updating any of my local files. all the directory's there all ok.. despite what i do. so I have to edit them manually : (
dammit

This is my ini file.

ProfileName:witcher3
ProfileModule:d3d11.dll
ProfilePath:C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\The Witcher 3\bin\x64\witcher3.exe
ProfileDll:ReShade64.dll
ProfilePreset:Witch
ProfileDisplay:The_Witcher_3
Last Edit: 3 years 9 months ago by xy44.
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #114

MonarchX wrote:
What I can't figure out is why after selecting shaders, the Values window has nothing listed?
Right click them.
Cheers, crosire =)
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #115

May be need rip Assist tool ? :) Old school edit config files are work so good.
But mb need to group all effects on three cfg:
1.Depth space Effects.cfg, - AO, DoF, etc.
2.Color space Effects.cfg, - Bloom, AL, Levels, etc
3.AA_Blur_Sharp effects.cfg.- AA, adaptivesharp, Gaussian etc
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #116

xy44 wrote:
Yikes!

Ok for the last week I struggled with trying to get the Reshade thing to work (Im not good with computers) - needless to say, I failed, as nothing I did worked. at the time I thought WHY dont they have some sort of GUI Interface to use..

Now I see this. so I was delighted to see a easy solution was done! (It was damm right scary previously)

However, sadly this does not work for me either.

My steps.

1)- Create the game location (In this case its Witcher 3) - set it to DX11
Save
2)-Edit the "global" so I can turn on/off the effect I have set it to VK_HOME or END (cant rem)
save
3)-Create a Profile "witcher" so its ready for selection of effects
save
4)-Launch game. - YAY I see the re-shade title thing at top of screen.
Al-tab back to the editor
Click on a few shaders to test....
save
Back to game.. Nothing.
Try turning on a fe more shaders/messing with effects
save
Back to game.. Nothing.

No matter what I do.. nothing works. the only thing I get is the reshade text on top right corner.

Please, tell me what am I doing wrong?

FYI: Windows 10 pro / Geforce GTX980 ti

EDIT: I know whats wrong.. The assistant is not updating any of my local files. all the directory's there all ok.. despite what i do. so I have to edit them manually : (
dammit

This is my ini file.

ProfileName:witcher3
ProfileModule:d3d11.dll
ProfilePath:C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\The Witcher 3\bin\x64\witcher3.exe
ProfileDll:ReShade64.dll
ProfilePreset:Witch
ProfileDisplay:The_Witcher_3

Run the assistant as administrator, might help. It has to create a junction in program files which might not work on windows 10 from a tool without admin privileges.
Last Edit: 3 years 9 months ago by OtisInf.
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #117

I sincerely apologize to have dragged this thread into the wrong direction (I had a bad day :pinch:). I'll try to get it back on topic.

1. I will finish the delay implementation with the click skip by the end of today (if that's not comfortable we can look for other solutions)
//Done and I think it works very well :)

2. I will prepare a prototype for having a horizontal separation of pipeline and values to experiment with that (that might take a bit longer though)
//To Do for future release

3. I will add tutorial hints to empty tabs to use the space and make it easier for new users
//Done for Presets and Profiles tab (since other Shaders and Values tabs will be not navigable unless having content > point 8.)

4. I will add a help button (?) to the window where you can get basic information about the tool
//To Do for future release

5. I will add a few more short cuts that have been requested (at least by other devs)
//Done; ctrl+R > reset; F2 > update profile/preset (let me know if you come up with more)

6. I will see to improve the parsing to at least get some basic and simplified value editing done
//To Do for future release

7. I will see how I can add in a option that will open a shader config in notepad from within the pipeline for traditional text editing
//Done; LeftAlt+Selecting a shader in pipeline will open the .cfg file with the notepad

8. I will disable navigation to Globals, Shaders/Pipeline and Values tabs if there is no content displayed
//Done (does not yet cover cases in which the .cfg has no value entries)

9. I will force the default profile to always point to the currently selected preset (sorta fix for non-central management or missing/misrecognized profiles and the preview tools)
//Done

10. I will try to highlight certain Assistant feedback such as the extra/confirm click on save
//Done

11. I will add an option to toggle software rendering in the Assistant. It might improve performance for some if toggled off/on (e.g. for people that had problems with dual GPUs)
//Done

12. I found and fixed quiet a few bugs :whistle:
//Done

I will add more to the list in case I forgot anything. Keep up the good spirit guys.
Last Edit: 3 years 9 months ago by Ganossa.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: crosire, JPulowski, SpinelessJelly, DeMondo, Golgotha, piltrafus, OtisInf, ahnion

2.0 3 years 9 months ago #118

@Ganossa
--> Dont take the blame on you for this, heck there is even nobody here in this thread to be blamed for ;), I think you did already (and the other ReShade developers too) a great job with the shaders alone, making shaders in your free time and for FREE for us, so to be honest we cant complain, perhaps it sounds like Im coming from another direction now but thats not the case, I think the shaders you (Ganossa) made are among (if not) the best out there to be used in games by everyone, I never have changed my opinion about that, Im thinking about the shaders you put into ReShade, besides that I still use your own GEMFX Shader Package & Tool many times, its great for old games too because of the unique 2xFXAA feature and the unique TrueColor Shader for modern games (which looks awesome and realistic in Alien Isolation).

I wish you made those available in ReShade too, instead of focussing on the ReShade Assistant tool, do what you are truly great in, and thats without any doubt making shaders, and bringing into it as well a unique vision (your TrueColor Shader & Realistic Shader, etc).

Your GEMFX tool was looking fine, but above all handy, fast responsive and with a clean looking interface, nothing to complain about.

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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #119

I like the new look; but the UI is a touch annoying it keeps switching when I don't want it to and the buttons disappear as soon as I move my mouse, other than that and the fact that there's no description for the effects, this has become magnitudes easier to use compared to the last one..the only constructive criticism I can offer is to make the seperations/tabs activate on click rather than mousing over
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2.0 3 years 9 months ago #120

  • ahnion
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  • paradoXymoron
rhn94 wrote:
there's no description for the effects

You can get descriptions of most shaders (in the "tooltip field" at the bottom) by right-clicking them. This also selects them for editing.


@Ganossa
Wow. That sounds great. Sorry if we all appeared a bit overly critical and such. UX is a tricky thing to describe, because when it doesn't "work for you", it gets frustrating very quickly. I suspect many of the less diplomatic posts stem from this. :)
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