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TOPIC: Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly]

Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 3 weeks ago #1

  • DeMondo
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@Marty McFly: I (& many others) got loads of black lines (around edges) with RBM enabled and DOF disabled (DOF can cover up the many black lines from RBM in the distance at a certain angle but certainly not all, and the DOF-"trick" isnt really a solution), besides those glitches, the performance hit is quite steep with RBM enabled, can you fix these 2 problems?
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 3 weeks ago #2

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There is already a topic for that

reshade.me/forum/shader-suggestions/1914-rbm-blur-option

as you very well know because you replied there, so creating a new one isn't necessary.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 3 weeks ago #3

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Marty McFly wrote:
There is already a topic for that

reshade.me/forum/shader-suggestions/1914-rbm-blur-option

as you very well know because you replied there, so creating a new one isn't necessary.

---
--> Exactly in that forum I asked you about RBM, Im still waiting on feedback from you there for days.

I do think its very well necessary here (to open a new topic), look at this example,
you asked me twice about my Batman AK tweaks etc:
#1 reshade.me/forum/general-discussion/214-...ead?start=2016#14041
#2 reshade.me/forum/general-discussion/214-...ead?start=2016#14048

Those 2 questions from you to me within 2 hours,.. I replied you with a fully detailed description + solution
for the tweaks for Batman AK within no time:

--> my reply to you: reshade.me/forum/general-discussion/214-...ead?start=2016#14049

but YOU on the contrary here, you let others and me as well in this forum hanging on their "asking-thread"
without giving any reply back from you,
--> and THAT is I believe totally unnecessary. ;)
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 3 weeks ago #4

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You asked a question on the RBM Blur thread? You said two things in the course of responding to the thread:

DeMondo wrote:
--THAT would be very handy, because I got loads of black lines with RBM enabled and DOF disabled (DOF covers up the many black lines from RBM in the distance at a certain angle but not all).

I would love to see a RMB v2. B)

&

DeMondo wrote:
I like where this is heading.

I see no need for a response, since there were no questions asked. To me it just sounded like you were just supporting the idea and the black line fix that Marty found :P
Last Edit: 7 months 3 weeks ago by Elimina.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #5

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Elimina wrote:
You asked a question on the RBM Blur thread? You said two things in the course of responding to the thread:

DeMondo wrote:
--THAT would be very handy, because I got loads of black lines with RBM enabled and DOF disabled (DOF covers up the many black lines from RBM in the distance at a certain angle but not all).

I would love to see a RMB v2. B)

&

DeMondo wrote:
I like where this is heading.

I see no need for a response, since there were no questions asked. To me it just sounded like you were just supporting the idea and the black line fix that Marty found :P

---
---
--> Thats why I made a new topic, to make things clear, to describe the problem clearly + ask a clear question ;)

Consider this:
1 week 3 days ago: You asked a question with --> "but would it be possible to add a low angle option as well to get rid of the black outlines?": reshade.me/forum/shader-suggestions/1914-rbm-blur-option#13877

1 week 3 days ago: Marty McFly replied with --> "Yes that is easy to do.":
reshade.me/forum/shader-suggestions/1914-rbm-blur-option#13880

So 10 days later still nothing after "easy to do"? and with your words: "and the black line fix that Marty found :P"

When you are in a discussion (in this case that topic) and when you see a reaction from somebody you just let them keep talking without giving any response? Especially considered the time: 1 week 3 days ago + "easy to do"-thing ? Well...
I wrote there with: "I would love to see a RMB v2. B)", indeed not a question,.. my intention was to receive some feedback / update, because the topic was drying out there, Marty's last response was 10 days ago, thats why. ;)

So what was your true intention in the previous topic (reshade.me/forum/shader-suggestions/1914...-blur-option?start=6), just to wait (without expecting a response back, feels awkward in a conversation, no? Im not content with that kind of approach, but maybe you are) or just expecting nothing came out like a RBM v2 or a quick solution? or was your intention to get SOME update on the RBM black line fix (after 10 days) (after all) ? ;)
When somebody throw up a bone (a fix in this case), you WILL receive reactions on it, but when you throw up a bone,
and you dont reply to the reactions, thats kind of strange, to say the least.
I wonder what people are thinking (here Marty) when they write in a topic about a fix for a problem
and they revisited the topic again without answering or giving any feedback after seeing reactions from others
on the possible fix: --> "haha just let them wait" or "I dont give a sh*te Im better let them wait" [?].

Needless to say, I dont like that approach, if you throw up a fix, you know you will get reactions on it,.. but just let them writing more and more and let them wait, no thats unnecessary, especially considered after this: when Marty asked me the same thing twice about the tweaks within a short time interval (were 2 times necessary[?]), while I gave a response + detailed solution in no time, than communication is heading to an "one-way-road" approach, thats never a good & wise thing to do in a forum topic or (real life)-conversation. Or would YOU think its ok IF I let him (or anyone) wait 10+ days (without giving any update in between) and THAN give the tweaks to Marty (or others) while in the meantime I know the asked tweaks are already ready? I do believe (now) YOU wouldnt mind...

Besides that there are alot of unanswered calls from others with very CLEAR questions about DOF etc, just take a look at the first 2 pages in --> topics in Category: Troubleshooting. Or arent they clear enough [for you] (?)
Last Edit: 7 months 2 weeks ago by DeMondo.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #6

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Seriously? Please consider that the people here have a life and are not interested in spending every day doing stuff without actually getting anything in return. If a bug report comes up, it's surely put on the TODO list. But don't expect things to just happen right away. I some cases there simply isn't enough time to look into something at all, which is unfortunate, but that's how it is. This is a hobby project for all people involved. Not a fulltime job. One week is a ridiculously small time frame. =)
Cheers, crosire =)
Last Edit: 7 months 2 weeks ago by crosire.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: NattyDread, Marty McFly

Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #7

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crosire wrote:
Seriously? Please consider that the people here have a life and are not interested in spending every day doing stuff without actually getting anything in return. If a bug report comes up, it's surely put on the TODO list. But don't expect things to just happen right away. I some cases there simply isn't enough time to look into something at all, which is unfortunate, but that's how it is. This is a hobby project for all people involved. Not a fulltime job. One week is a ridiculously small time frame. =)

---
--> Indeed seriously, besides that I think you totally missed the point here,
what does a forum mean to you or conversation, really? Why & for whom was this forum build in the first place for..?
Talking to each other with intervals of 1 week in between each others reaction? Wow I wouldnt like to have
a real-life conversation with you than.. And you think I dont know what little time means ?(!),
consider this: I have 2 jobs, one consisting of my own business, how small it is ;) it takes big time, still that
doesnt mean ( for me at least [;) ] I dont want or cant take the time to reply to peoples questions or reactions, especially not if they are "thirsty" for a solution, it just takes little to reply.

And two: Marty asked twice about my tweaks within an hour, apparently he couldnt wait,
while the ReShade users here have to wait till the ReShade "Gods" are willingly to answer
their questions, thats the point (!) Step off your throne, dont act like we are noobs, for example.. ask a math-teacher
about Latin, he or she wouldnt know sh*te about it, and vice versa, if you ask a teacher about a solution for a problem and he says: "yes I have one for you now BUT I will give you the solution after 10 days.." with other words, just act like a normal person, that means helping each other, not sitting on your throne and looking down on people who cant write & talk
in shader language or whatever & above all stop hiding behind words like: "we have a life too" or "ReShade is no full-time job" etc etc..
--In for a penny, in for a pound.--

If you throw up a bone (solution), expect "thirsty" people reacting on it and not letting them wait while you have the solution, you know: forum..talking.. updating.. helping each ohter..
--In for a penny, in for a pound.--
I hope you get it (this time). Have a great day! :)
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #8

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:sick:
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #9

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piltrafus wrote:
:sick:

?
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #10

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Crosire: let me refresh your memory & show how long my patience is:
you remember the OpenGL black screen problem? It took you 6 months to finally answer me.

You asked if I could add you on Steam, on Steam you ignored me totally after you came back from vacation:
(that was the second time I tried to contact you via Steam chat about the opengl problem)
This is from the forum about the opengl problem (and not only me you totally ignored about it, other users with the opengl problem too)
I quote myself from topic: "The Chronicles of Riddick - Assault on Dark Athena"
reshade.me/forum/troubleshooting/938-the...thena?start=12#12484

"Timeline of this problem:
* 6 months ago I started this topic for the black screen problem:
--> reshade.me/forum/troubleshooting/938-the...-on-dark-athena#7564

* 6 months ago you asked me if I could add you on Steam, so I invited you, than you went on vacation and you sent me a test build of ReShade to test it with The Chronicles of Riddick - Assault on Dark Athena:
--> reshade.me/forum/troubleshooting/938-the...-on-dark-athena#7577

* After you came back from vacation I sent you a message via Steamchat about this problem than a few more --> but zero responses from your side.

* 3 weeks ago I started up this topic again:
--> reshade.me/forum/troubleshooting/938-the...on-dark-athena#11969

* 2 weeks ago you asked about what graphics card I use, I answer you --> but again zero responses from your side afterwards:
--> reshade.me/forum/troubleshooting/938-the...athena?start=6#12147

As everyone can see, its kind of beyond annoying, if you are not able to solve this problem than say it, but no responses from your side on a forum you created yourself is kind of awkward."

--> Thats just a snippet from it: I mean 6 months I had to wait for an answer, than your answer was: you didnt had the right time.
Seriously? 6 months, you didnt had the time in between to just say no I cant or whatever but totally no feedback from you, yes after 6 months pulling & pulling.

-> I start to believe now how you deal with problems, and what you think is normal with letting others wait.
Seriously, dont start your own business with that kind of attitude, you wont stand long.
Last Edit: 7 months 2 weeks ago by DeMondo.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #11

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Talk about building a case...
Cmon man, these people owe you nothing. In fact you should be grateful for what we already have.
Just imagine how many requests they get on a weekly basis.
I went through the same thing with inverted depth buffer but instead of attacking people after two unsuccessful attempts of getting an answer I rolled up my sleeves and fond a hacky way of doing it myself.

If you're happy to service people all the time on your mods, kudos, but that doesn't leave you entitled to get serviced all the time.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #12

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1) I actually had a better version of RBM set up but I accidentally overwrote it, hence my motivation to write it all over again has been a bit low the last days. Also, just fixing something isn' doing the job. In order to accomplish any thing in ReShade there are 100 ways to do it. I can implement one and upload it or I can try out every one of them and use the best one. It's "box with 4 wheels" vs racecar. Both do their job, if you push them, they roll.
I learnt a lot of things regarding depth and normals when working on MXAO so I couldn't just fix the issues with RBM, I had to rewrite it entirely. icelaglace told me that the Fresnel Term I use is totally nonsense so I had to research how to use it correctly. Also Elimina requested to have a brightness threshold for the reflection which is difficult to do because the reflection is not color + reflection but more like color*(1-reflfactor)+reflection*reflfactor so adding a plain threshold produces black reflections which is not what users would expect.

2) My free time is limited and I have other projects going on, such as my newest ENB mod for GTASA. When my semester starts, I cannot continue that as the ENB doesn't run on my rather slow laptop but ReShade runs, hence my priorities lie with the ENB.

3) You're comparing apples and oranges here. What you posted was copypasting something you already had on your drive, while I have to write the shader in order to post it here and that takes a lot more time. Also, I asked you a second time only because you replied to the screenshot thread without addressing my issue so I assumed you missed it.

4) You're forgetting that we are, after all, gamers. At least I am. I don't spend my whole freetime on shader coding. It's a means to make my gaming experience better but I don't dedicate all my time to it. If I got paid for it, sure, but this is a hobby. WoW has been occupying me for example.
On top that, a week ago I got a graphics tablet so I also spent time sharpening my drawing skills.
I won't sacrifice all my hobbies for one just because you say so.
Last Edit: 7 months 2 weeks ago by Marty McFly.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #13

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Marty McFly wrote:
1) I actually had a better version of RBM set up but I accidentally overwrote it, hence my motivation to write it all over again has been a bit low the last days. Also, just fixing something isn' doing the job. In order to accomplish any thing in ReShade there are 100 ways to do it. I can implement one and upload it or I can try out every one of them and use the best one. I learned a lot of things regarding depth and normals when working on MXAO so I couldn't just fix the issues with RBM, I had to rewrite it entirely. icelaglace told me that the Fresnel Term I use is totally nonsense so I had to research how to use it correctly. Also Elimina requested to have a brightness threshold for the reflection which is difficult to do because the reflection is not color + reflection but more like color*(1-reflfactor)+reflection*reflfactor so adding a plain threshold produces black reflections

I am happy that you are trying to implement my ideas, but if a small feature isn't going to work, I don't think it is a necessary addition. As long as the more applicable additions are added, which are also easier to implement (such as the blur option, black line fix, and and maybe a depth fade option), I would be happy
Last Edit: 7 months 2 weeks ago by Elimina.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #14

color*(1-reflfactor)+reflection*reflfactor == lerp(color, reflection, reflfactor)

reflfactor == 1 means no diffusion, mirror like material.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #15

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When writing lerp, DeMondo doesn't know what that is. I wrote it in layman's terms. Wasn't that obvious?
Last Edit: 7 months 2 weeks ago by Marty McFly.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #16

lerp is native to gpu hardware, I'm not sure if compiler will recognize a*(1-r) + b*r as lerp.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #17

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Dude, I wrote lerp in the shader. I wrote a*(1-r) + b*r here so DeMondo understands it
You're derailing the original discussion to prove your knowledge. Stop that.
Last Edit: 7 months 2 weeks ago by Marty McFly.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #18

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Marty McFly wrote:
You're derailing the original discussion to prove your knowledge

The topic has been derailed since the 2nd page xD The main topic is titled "Reflective Bump Mapping", and it has reached a point where the topic has drifted to work ethics, conversational structures, and time management.
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #19

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Let's just all calm down here, shall we? :)

@kingeric1992: The optimizer pass picks that up. It's a pretty simple expression to identify. Same way "a * b + c" will be translated into a single MAD instruction in most cases.
Cheers, crosire =)
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Reflective Bump Mapping [Marty McFly] 7 months 2 weeks ago #20

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Marty McFly wrote:
1) I actually had a better version of RBM set up but I accidentally overwrote it, hence my motivation to write it all over again has been a bit low the last days.
Sucks! :/

For next time, you can get unlimited private repositories at bitbucket.org, so you can commit the stuff there without sharing it with the world. Might be an idea to keep things safe. One can never have too much redundancy!
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