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TOPIC: qUINT

qUINT 1 month 1 week ago #401

Faustus86 wrote:
Actually that's the exact definition of misleading. To go with the steak example. McDonalds can "dress" their food as they want to but if they put a burger with frie's on the menu the customer pay's for steak with fries.

Maybe you want to read up on the definition of misleading. Misleading would be to say that the raytracing shader includes reflections, but given it was clearly defined as "Indirect Illumination" this excludes this assumption. You know how often packaging or pictures on menus have a note that says "Serving Suggestion" or "All pictures shown are for illustration purpose only. Actual product may vary due to product enhancement" or how in many advertisements the products tend to look better without any notes? Well I have a fun little Reddit thread for you to read, it's even ELI5 so it should be perfect: www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comme..._not_sued_for_false/

But given the showcases of Marty's shaders clearly say it is about the indirect lighting, even the worst cases don't apply to it. :)

Faustus86 wrote:
Also i was talking about the early version of the shader. How does it come that most if not all people (even the developer himself) have flickering all over when even slightly moving the camera but the video it is marketed with has completely different result's.

I really wonder where you got this impression or information that everyone, including Marty, had issues with flickering. One of the earliest showcases of his raytracing shader comes from Digital Foundry's Crysis Ray Tracing video (as seen here ) and as far as I see it, they don't really have issues with flickering to the degree you make it sound like. Probably because Digital Foundry, Lucas, Hodilton, and other showcasers have used appropriately high settings with setups that could easily handle those GPU loads? Personally I haven't run into flickering either, because I had the ray and step count appropriately set. Of course it tanked my FPS, but that was to be expected.

Faustus86 wrote:
Because most if not all people are too stupid to move slider's correctly? Seriously? I didn't wanted to go down this road in the first place but my point's not "disprove" just because you disagree or don't like what i say.

I come from a variety of modding communities and a strong background in programming. People often already fail at reading a description or a five line instruction, so I have no issues saying that I honestly believe that a handful of users failed at adjusting the shader correctly. Those will of course then go on to complain about it, while the rest is enjoying their games without a problem.


Also one of your accusations was that someone used an offline render or Nvidia's RTX Raytracing to construct the showcase, which is so misleading that it isn't even funny, and to disprove another of your points, the SSR shader applies the reflections to everything as it doesn't know what is reflective and what isn't, so go figure.

Lastly, maybe try to properly disprove my arguments instead of pulling an UNO reverse card. ;)
Last Edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Netrve. Reason: Typos
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qUINT 1 month 1 week ago #402

I thought my burger example was clear enough but maybe law applies differently in different country's. In Germany McDonald's can display their food as nice if they want to and if it comes as a half smashed burger there is actually nothing to complain about. But if the display show's a burger with fries and coke the customer pay's for a burger with fries and coke, no matter how you name it. Same does not apply on buying a car because you think you would also get the half naked woman leaning on it, because common sense. Talking about law in Germany, misleading marketing like this could lead to legal fee's of several thousand's and prison sentences between 6 month's and 5 year's. As soon as money is involved rule's change. But from what the cliche's say about us we tend in general to take stuff more seriously then other's. Thank's for the ELI5 but you can keep it.

The flickering issue: Even with slider's on max i had issue's with flickering and ghosting. Why i think it's the same for everyone else? Well, because i read this thread and the patchnote's that talk a lot about fixing issue's like flickering, ghosting and performance issue's.
Why do i think Marty had the same? Well. If he uses the same version he publishes for the patreon's this should apply.
Reading the latest patchnote's the newest version can now auto-detect sky color. Watching the video that is linked in Marty's signature this was apparently already in. See the light coming from the window's. Yellow light, blue light, white light etc. As far as i know these option's where added to the shader at a much later point. The shader i have tested tinted light into an orange/yellow color depending on the setting's. But that probably depend's on how good you rig is, doesn't it.
My point is that the shader is marketed with video material that doesn't reflect what the shader is actually capable of by using additional stuff and trick's to make it look much better then what it is actually capable of (at that time) and no argument's could actually prove it wrong if even the developer say's that he can not achieve the same result's. As i have say'd earlier, there is actually no point in discussing this further, so can we stop now? I don't take your shit.
About the modding community and "many people don't know how to read" etc. Can't argue with that.

About the "Nvidia's RTX Raytracing" thing. I have say'd it look's ALMOST like it. Just adding to the value of it's quality. But thinking about it ... neither you nor Marty himself can say this is wrong because none of you have made the footage and can tell what effect's and setting's where used, so what's the point.

Should i have missed an argument you wish me not to pull an UNO card on or whatever don't hesitate. By now iv'e spendet so much time with this bullshit, it doesn't even bother me anymore.

EDIT
Smoked a cigarette and re-think my decision. Keep your shit, i don't have time for this.
Last Edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Faustus86.
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qUINT 1 month 1 week ago #403

Hello, this is Lucas .. the original creator of the "fake" raytracing shader demo video and I feel I need to chime in a bit.

The video was composed of footage ENTIRELY captured in-game. No post-processing was applied.

I work in the visual effects industry and do no make many videos about games but Marty's shader really excited me and surprised me at what was achievable in-game with a non RTX card. I felt that a lot of the videos showcasing Marty's shader were made by people that had limited knowledge of how light and shadow work in tandem and how the physical properties of light work in real life, at it's Alpha stage that knowledge was handy when fine-tuning the settings and getting the best output possible. Because I felt people were wrongly configuring the shader (some of those were quite idiotic clickbait) and that his work was not getting the showcase it deserved I decided to make one of my own, I have made further videos which you are free to have a look at on my channel.

How I recorded the videos?

Because at Alpha stage the shader was still in its infancy and I wanted to showcase the visual effect rather than the performance I took the following steps while capturing the footage.

a) recorded using OBS at 15 fps
b) used the RockStar editor camera to create the smooth movement (the rockstar editor motion was reduced to 5%,)
c) I then sped up the footage in Premiere to 30fps

I have used (in Reshade)
Marty's SSR
Marty's DOF
Marty's RTGI
Clarity (basically a sharpen filter)
Luma sharpen

GTAV Visual mod used was Natural Vision Remastered with ENB (NVR ENB settings) + LA Billboards and LA Roads


When the original/first video was made, the skylight was NOT available and was NOT used in the video at all, just a really long ray length and fine-tuned z-depth




Each shot had it's own setting fined tuned (The Beta shader is vastly more powerful and requires far less tinkering, and pretty much once you set it up you don't have to tweak anymore, the skylight is a game-changer for many games, my latest video shows that part off)

This another video showcasing a MUCH LATER ALPHA VERSION with SKYLIGHT




I spent around 20-30 hours playing with the shader before the video, see how it plays with light and how to best set up every shot to best showcase it. I'm sorry you did not get the same effect, but it took a lot of time and patience. Ray length, z-thickness and secondary bounce intensity really played a big part.

The purpose of the video was to show what was possible, the breakthrough and potential Marty's shader had at optimal settings.

I used the SSR shader for reflections (foolishly assuming people would be clever enough to distinguish SSR and ...Path Traced GI (Global Illumination).

Many people these days think they can press a button and everything will look amazing, without taking the time to understand why something looks the way it is .. where is our curiosity gone? The video does not lie, it shows off the ALPHA shader at it's best and optimal conditions and I think it achieves the message I was trying to convey .... Here is OLD GTA V, here is GTA V with light bouncing around ... end of the story.

The shader was in Alpha, it took work to make it look good from the user, and not just to slap it on and hope for excellent results, many of us worked hard to report back to Marty with features and ideas. He worked very hard to get to the Beta, which is excellent btw, and super optimised.

P.S Blender is cute for beginners ... Houdini or Maya is where it's at :)

If you have any further questions or opinions I am available on Marty's Discord server under mrstevens
Last Edit: 1 month 1 week ago by mrstevens.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: Wicked Sick, CeeJay.dk, Marty McFly, Martigen, Viper_Joe, Arkane, Marot, Faustus86

qUINT 1 month 1 week ago #404

Also shameless plug :) ...

Americana video :)



and breakdown

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qUINT 1 month 5 hours ago #405

So I was wondering about the interest in the reflective bumpmap shader. I think of the SSR shader as its spiritual successor but after playing with it again, I see the two as different shaders now. Would you consider SSR as important enough to be added to qUINT in revised form?
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qUINT 3 weeks 6 days ago #406

Marty McFly wrote:
So I was wondering about the interest in the reflective bumpmap shader. I think of the SSR shader as its spiritual successor but after playing with it again, I see the two as different shaders now. Would you consider SSR as important enough to be added to qUINT in revised form?
Hello.
First of all, thanks to dev(s).
And I have a question, if possible.
Sometimes all of the following shaders: ReflectiveBumpmapping / SSR / RT / MXAO have an upward offset. Or no offset, but are rotated vertically 180 degrees.
How to fix it?
//sorry for bad english (google translate)
add.
as in the screenshot, or flipped 180 degrees (in some other games)
Last Edit: 3 weeks 6 days ago by Plagues.
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qUINT 3 weeks 2 days ago #407

> Would you consider SSR as important enough to be added to qUINT in revised form?

He still asks? :blink: .. Of course, add this! :cheer:
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qUINT 3 weeks 1 day ago #408

Marty McFly wrote:
So I was wondering about the interest in the reflective bumpmap shader. I think of the SSR shader as its spiritual successor but after playing with it again, I see the two as different shaders now. Would you consider SSR as important enough to be added to qUINT in revised form?

Yes please! Your work is great.

I used qUINT (mostly MXAO and SSR) for some of my presets:
sfx.thelazy.net/games/preset/10084/
sfx.thelazy.net/games/preset/10093/

Such a great way to revisit old games!
Last Edit: 3 weeks 1 day ago by Dr.J.
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qUINT 2 weeks 3 days ago #409

Marty McFly,
Please add the option to flip vertically 180 degrees: Reflective Bump mapping / SSR / RT / MXAO
If possible
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qUINT 2 weeks 3 days ago #410

Plagues wrote:
Marty McFly,
Please add the option to flip vertically 180 degrees: Reflective Bump mapping / SSR / RT / MXAO
If possible

You already can in preprocessor settings.
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qUINT 2 weeks 2 days ago #411

klotim wrote:
You already can in preprocessor settings.

Many thanks for help, bro! :woohoo:
// seems "preprocessor settings" not working for__PPFX SSDO :unsure:
Last Edit: 2 weeks 2 days ago by Plagues.
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qUINT 2 weeks 2 days ago #412

While PPFX_SSDO is technically off topic for this thread quick info: someone else (if it's not you, that is) had the same issue on discord after which JJXB, author of the shader, pushed an update available on his/her github. Should fix it.
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qUINT 2 weeks 1 day ago #413

My apologies if this was asked before, but are there chances the Global Illumination will come back on the latest build of QUINT? Thank you!
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qUINT 2 weeks 1 day ago #414

Apparently I forgot to post the news, so here we go...

qUINT received another update. Fixed a few bugs and typos and added a versioning system to the common file that should make things easier if and when I update it in the future. The most important thing however is that the formerly Patreon exclusive sharpen filter is now out of beta and publicly available on github.


The RT shader also has been updated to use the new common file, amongst other changes for this month's update.
Last Edit: 2 weeks 1 day ago by Marty McFly.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: Wicked Sick, Viper_Joe, Marty, Plagues

qUINT 2 weeks 7 hours ago #415

The new sharpen looks pretty good.
There's still problem with Lightroom (problem only versions with internal LUT seem to have) in DX9 I reported on earlier, sadly.
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qUINT 1 week 1 day ago #416

There's a new DELC sharpening shader in qUINT package, i really like it, but i wanted to share a bit of a feedback. With high enough sharpening strength (~0.350+ without local ce and ~0.450+ with local ce) there is a flickering present on some edges, the game i tested it on is AC Odyssey. That flickering most noticeable usually on UI element, menu, but on in-game objects as well, to a lesser degree. I wanted to share this in case anything can be done. But thank you for the shader.
Last Edit: 1 week 1 day ago by pyewacket.
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qUINT 1 week 1 day ago #417

That's what sharpen does, it increases aliasing present in the scene. That flickering is there even without sharpen, the shader just amplifies it so it's visible.
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qUINT 1 week 1 day ago #418

The relationship between the new shaperning filter and CAS porting?
Last Edit: 1 week 1 day ago by lowenz.
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qUINT 1 week 1 day ago #419

Do you can have add LiftGammaGain in Lightroom ?
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