MasterEffect ReBorn official thread

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5 years 5 months ago #541 by Kleio420
Replied by Kleio420 on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread

Marty McFly wrote: Yes and no. I do have a bunch of things that I'd like to implement as separate shaders so porting them is 10 mins work but I see nothing substantial that is missing in MasterEffect. 3D LUT is planned, I have DLAA ported, some kind of LED shader, SSAA, NFAA (both shitty AA methods, way inferior to FXAA).

15-06-0623-281fumn.png[/img][/url]


idk if the code differs but i found someone that ported it to unity engine and said they added some things to improve NFAA , reshade.me/forum/shader-suggestions/511-can-someone-port-these idk if this would imrpove upon what you already have but if your planing on putting it in a pack hopefully that new code if its new helps improve it

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5 years 5 months ago #542 by Marty McFly
Replied by Marty McFly on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
Actually the ones I ported are more complex than what I see in this suggestion thread, so they most likely are even more optimized.

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5 years 5 months ago - 5 years 5 months ago #543 by Psychosis
Replied by Psychosis on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
First of all, thank you! your work is amazing.

Game is E.Y.E: Divine Cybermancy, made in Source engine.
It seems that Master Effect can't get access to depth buffer since AO and DoF don't work, the only effects that I notice are bloom and tone-mapping.
That's strange because ENB can get the depth buffer and its' DoF effect works(although it's wonky), I was wondering if there is a quick-fix for this, as this is the Source engine after all and not new alien technology.
before; original i.imgur.com/7l7ZUmU.png (1440p)

after; original i.imgur.com/Gj2upoz.png (1440p)


Edit: One other Issue I've had with AO in another game is that it takes a couple of seconds for Master Effect to generate the AO and when I move it starts generating a new layer, it's not real-time, I would frankly rather it dropped the frame-rate to 2fps and occluded real-time, at least that way I would know how much horse power I need to run at 60fps.

Edit: By the way, I think that this(Hybrid rendering, rasterized and ray-tracing) might interest you :)

Edit: After scrolling a bit I saw that reply from Ioxa about taking a greyscale, inverting, levels and blend with AO to get better occlusion.
I would definitely like to add that to one of my games, I only have no idea where to put that code he posted..

I also have an answer to you, you've said that bright areas should get as much shadows as dark ones.

First an example, I stand with the sun at my back, in front of a mountain, as the mountain is steep and full of crevices it occludes itself, the problem is the algorithm doesn't seem to take the sun into account.. and what happens more often then not is that areas that are fully lit by the sun and should on no account be occluded get dark shadows.

And now the answer itself, on games that already have a nice lighting system - the technique that Ioxa suggested would work brilliantly, that is because lit areas are already lit and vice versa, only sometimes the shadows aren't dark enough, this would work a bit like contrast but without affecting the lit areas, basically deepening the shadows.(about the same effect that is of more rays processed but without further load on the system)
Last edit: 5 years 5 months ago by Psychosis.

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5 years 5 months ago #544 by Marty McFly
Replied by Marty McFly on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
If AO is delayed, the depth buffer itself is delayed (thst is why it needs time to build up, first few secs depth buffer is empty) there is nothing I can do about and it is not related to code but to the game itself.
ENB and ReShade use different approaches to find the depth buffer, one might fail where the other succeeds.

About the Occlusion stuff you wrote, well, that is what SSAO is, it is not physically correct by definition. And MasterEffect already has luminance consideration so there is nothing to implement.

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5 years 5 months ago #545 by kingeric1992
Replied by kingeric1992 on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread

Psychosis wrote: First of all, thank you! your work is amazing.
...
the problem is the algorithm doesn't seem to take the sun into account..


It is still a screen space post process, not engine hack, you can't get what is not on the screen.
Just consider it as a pre-programmed automatic photo editing

and AO stands for ambient occlusion, which by definition is to ignore direct lighting.
even with some AO mod like SSDO that take the direct lighting into account, it still require the info on the light source.

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5 years 5 months ago - 5 years 5 months ago #546 by Psychosis
Replied by Psychosis on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
It is noted that reshade 0.14.0 should be used on half life 2, is it possible that the older version has depth buffer access and the new one does not?

If so, as ME is noted to not be compatible with versions older than 0.15.0, Is it possible to patch-in the depth buffer part from 0.14.0?

I didn't understand the part about luminance consideration(rather how it's solving that problem in the following screenshot for example)

Warning: Spoiler!


Edit: What loxa proposed is taking the "baked" shadows, and enhancing them, that will only work on games that already have baked light and shadow maps, you can use it to remove shadows that your AO wrongfully creates, invert the lit areas, delete the lit inverted blackness from the Raymarch AO pass.
Last edit: 5 years 5 months ago by Psychosis.

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5 years 5 months ago #547 by kingeric1992
Replied by kingeric1992 on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
As you said, it require shadow map, or light map, which are both unavailable to Reshade as its current state.

To access those internal resource will require specific mod that probably not what Reshade aim for.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Marty McFly

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5 years 5 months ago - 5 years 5 months ago #548 by Psychosis
Replied by Psychosis on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
It seems that you have paid attention to the wrong part of my sentence.

The important part is here: "you can use it to remove shadows that your AO wrongfully creates, invert the lit areas, delete the lit inverted blackness from the Raymarch AO pass."

You don't need to access those internal resources.

1. turn frame to greyscale.
2. contrast + eliminate dark textures that may be perceived as shadows, shadows are generally smooth and not jagged so you can eliminate them that way.
3. RaymarchAO frame + frame of white lit areas (shadows that were wrongfully generated by Raymarch become erased).
4. return edited frame.

I didn't mean that you need access to shadow maps, but that this method can only be used on games that already have shadows.

Marty McFly wrote: And MasterEffect already has luminance consideration so there is nothing to implement.


Marty, you have not answered the question, how is luminance consideration fixing this issue? the hill is clearly in shadow.
Last edit: 5 years 5 months ago by Psychosis.

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5 years 5 months ago - 5 years 5 months ago #549 by Marty McFly
Replied by Marty McFly on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread

1. turn frame to greyscale.
2. contrast + eliminate dark textures that may be perceived as shadows, shadows are generally smooth and not jagged so you can eliminate them that way.
3. RaymarchAO frame + frame of white lit areas (shadows that were wrongfully generated by Raymarch become erased).
4. return edited frame.


that is roughly how luminance consideration works. I cannot eliminate shadows by "smoothness", that's not how this works, that's not how any of this works BUT I can lower the AO intensity the brighter the original image pixel is. That's what luminance consideration does. But there are some restrictions:

Just because you see something lit or not does not mean a shader can recognize it. The hill may be in shadow but lit dark objects may be darker than shadowed bright objects. There is just no way to find out if something is in shadow or not except by looking if occluded from light source which is not possible without knowing the light source position from inside the game engine. SSDO in PPFX fakes a light source so if it could retrieve the actual light source position, it would be what you are looking for but it can't.
So basically I can only use the raw brightness of a pixel as factor for AO intensity. And that's what luminance consideration does: checking how bright a pixel is and start lowering the AO intensity above a certain level down to 0 when a pixel is close to white.
That may sound cocky and arrogant but the chance that you have an idea I didn't have before is very low. I have insight in code, know exactly how things work and what can be realized and what not, while you haven't. You have no other option than to trust my word or prove me wrong with a piece of code that does what I consider impossible.
Last edit: 5 years 5 months ago by Marty McFly.

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5 years 5 months ago #550 by kingeric1992
Replied by kingeric1992 on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
It reminds me the gold-white-blue-black dress...
without certain info, not even human brain can tell which part was shadowed and which wasn't.

And since AO isn't based on actual physics, the only reason it looks wonderful in modern AAA games is because some Art Director tweak the AO parameters "scene by scene" with coordination of direct lighting.

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5 years 5 months ago #551 by Marty McFly
Replied by Marty McFly on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread

kingeric1992 wrote: And since AO isn't based on actual physics, the only reason it looks wonderful in modern AAA games is because some Art Director tweak the AO parameters "scene by scene" with coordination of direct lighting.


Or because the actually use SSDO with the actual light direction. But yes, can't agree more.

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5 years 5 months ago - 5 years 5 months ago #552 by Psychosis
Replied by Psychosis on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
Basically what I'm asking Is to try out what loxa did.

I had a more sophisticated and hard to accomplish idea, but his way seems good enough without all the hard work.

Warning: Spoiler!


His masked AO is what I need, I want to test and see if there are cases in which it prevents shadowing where shadows should be.

Is it possible for me to get his version?
Last edit: 5 years 5 months ago by Psychosis.

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5 years 5 months ago #553 by Ioxa
Replied by Ioxa on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread

Psychosis wrote: Basically what I'm asking Is to try out what loxa did.

I had a more sophisticated and hard to accomplish idea, but his way seems good enough without all the hard work.

Warning: Spoiler!


His masked AO is what I need, I want to test and see if there are cases in which it prevents shadowing where shadows should be.

Is it possible for me to get his version?

The AO luminance consideration should give the same results as what I did but give more control over where AO is and isn't applied. It's been awhile but I think the way I did it was take a gray scale of the original image and make it brighter so it covered up the AO in bright spots. I think the way Marty did it was take a gray scale of the original and use that to decide where AO is applied using smoothstep.

The way smoothstep works is it uses two values, in this case AO_LUMINANCE_LOWER and AO_LUMINANCE_UPPER, and compares them to a third value, in this case the gray scale image. Any parts of the gray scale image that are less than the AO_LUMINANCE_LOWER get full strength AO, any parts that are greater than AO_LUMINANCE_UPPER get no AO. And any parts of the image that are between AO_LUMINANCE_LOWER and AO_LUMINANCE_UPPER get a blend of AO and no AO with darker areas getting more and brighter areas getting less.

Hope that makes sense. Try experimenting with different values and see how it affects the AO. Just guessing I would think setting AO_LUMINANCE_LOWER to 0.0 and AO_LUMINANCE_UPPER to 0.8 or 0.9 would give very similar results to the screenshot I posted.

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5 years 5 months ago #554 by Marty McFly
Replied by Marty McFly on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
Implemented Raymarched HBAO as (hopefully) last occlusion technique (I might port SSDO of PPFX but I'm not sure since it uses fake data and is not realistic therefore) and added support for different color lookup table (16x256 ones).
Release soon after I fixed/added a few more things.
The following user(s) said Thank You: NattyDread, BrandonHortman, jas01

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5 years 5 months ago #555 by vfxninjaeditor
Replied by vfxninjaeditor on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
What's the difference between the two HBAO techniques?

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5 years 5 months ago #556 by Marty McFly
Replied by Marty McFly on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
Simple: regular AO shoots rays and checks IF they collide with anything. Raymarched AO shoots rays and checks how far the collision is, it goes a specific amount of steps along the ray and checks all the time if it collides or not. Gives more detailed occlusion info.

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5 years 5 months ago #557 by NattyDread
Replied by NattyDread on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread

Marty McFly wrote: Implemented Raymarched HBAO as (hopefully) last occlusion technique (I might port SSDO of PPFX but I'm not sure since it uses fake data and is not realistic therefore) and added support for different color lookup table (16x256 ones).
Release soon after I fixed/added a few more things.

IL (light source) maybe fake but it still has the best looking AO I've seen.

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5 years 5 months ago #558 by vfxninjaeditor
Replied by vfxninjaeditor on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread

NattyDread wrote:

Marty McFly wrote: Implemented Raymarched HBAO as (hopefully) last occlusion technique (I might port SSDO of PPFX but I'm not sure since it uses fake data and is not realistic therefore) and added support for different color lookup table (16x256 ones).
Release soon after I fixed/added a few more things.

IL (light source) maybe fake but it still has the best looking AO I've seen.


I have to agree with Natty on this.
The following user(s) said Thank You: NattyDread

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5 years 5 months ago - 5 years 5 months ago #559 by Ganossa
Replied by Ganossa on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
Hey Marty, good to see you at work again after ENBz :)

Just to let you know, 3D/16x256 LUT has already been done a few weeks ago. :cheer: (its the colorLUT option in the TuningPalette shader from CustomFX suite)

However, looking forward to the other additions to the ReShade Framework :lol: 1.0 is coming closer!
Last edit: 5 years 5 months ago by Ganossa.

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5 years 5 months ago - 5 years 5 months ago #560 by Marty McFly
Replied by Marty McFly on topic MasterEffect ReBorn official thread
I'm talking about MasterEffect here but since all the shaders are also in single ReShade.fx files, porting them to Framework is rather easy.

EDIT: Added attenuation to prevent SSAO bug which basically caused close objects to shadow very very far objects only because they were close onscreen like player and a far building. Switched from gaussian blur to linear blur for AO smoothing with now controlable parameter AO_BLUR_STEPS.
Last edit: 5 years 5 months ago by Marty McFly.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jas01, SpringTrap

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